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[Sticky] Help me to design the climatological features!  

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Pierre Lannoy
(@pierre-lannoy)
Member Admin

Hello dear weather enthusiasts.

As you may know, the next major release of Weather Station is scheduled for spring 2019 (if all go well).
In addition to all the planned new features (and improvements), this version will introduce new ways to visualize / display data on more "long-range" duration. I would like to tell a more "climatological" point of view.

In terms of visualization, I have for the moment planned four things:

  • Textual data (like the current one) but specific for extended time ranges and comparisons.
  • Tables with textual data (maybe by month/season/year, with value comparison - same month but last year, same season but last year, etc.)
  • Charts where you can select (for a type of measurement) all the years you want to compare (same thing for comparing the same seasons over years)
  • Circular year summary (like this one, which is from my point of view, the best yearly visualization "tools" I've ever seen).

In terms of handled data, I will add things like "minimum of this value for the year", "aggregation of this value for the season" and so on... I will add (too) things like the Hellmann's score (thanks @gerhard for the find) and maybe variation of the wind run (if we find a way with @zerog981 to compute it precisely).

But I know there are as many ways to use "climatological" data than people, cultures, continents... So, I need your help to identify things which are out of my scope. What sort of data operation / index / visualization would be the most usefull for you?

Just tell me, and I will add it to the wishlist 😉

If you like Weather Station, please consider to make a review to help make it known. That would be the best way to thank me...

Quote
Posted : 16/02/2019 7:20 pm
Chris
(@zerog981)
Estimable Member 🇩🇪🇨🇭Editor

Hi Pierre!

A great Thank You for involving us in this 😊 One of the things immediately comming into my mind are dry and wet periods counted in days. I think of something like the longest dry period of a year/season for example. Or at maximum it was raining for a whole two weeks in a row in 2018.

Basically this can be related to any timeframe (months/years/seasons), but from a climatological point of view wet and dry times are highly interesting over longer periods. Another suggestion related to this might also be textual values labeled Days since last precipitation or Days of rain for instance.

Chris

I like the cold weather. It means you get work done.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/02/2019 10:25 pm
Gerhard Witteveen
(@gerhard)
Estimable Member 🇳🇱 🇧🇪 Editor

Hi Pierre,

I see a lot of good news in your post 😀 . 

  • Textual data over longer periods would be a great tool!
  • Tables, superb!
  • Comparison charts for month/season/year would be great to have.
  • And, wow, if you could make a year-"round" graph like that...Whoahhh!

Hellmann-score would be great, but Frost-score would be nice too for comparing winters. Frost score: all daily  min and max temps below freezing aggregated, minus sign omitted. I could write out full specs if you like.  

What I am really missing is a sort of manual input of snow depth, new snowfall, and snow cover days. 

Thanks again for all the hard work in making this even better than I imagined possible!

Gerhard

 

 

This post was modified 1 month ago by Gerhard Witteveen
ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/02/2019 8:04 am
Olaf Eckhardt
(@olaf)
Eminent Member

Hi Pierre,

keep up the great work, I am looking very forward to the new functions.
I agree with Gerhard; a manual input function would be super cool.

Grtz Olaf

 

Music is food for the soul

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/02/2019 10:31 pm
Pierre Lannoy
(@pierre-lannoy)
Member Admin

Hello all.

I've noted all your suggestions (except for manual entries, which is another subject, see here).

@zerog981 : longest dry period, days since last precipitation, days of rain, etc. will be something feasible. But what is more unclear for me is how to manage "the maximum it was raining for a whole two weeks in a row in <period>"... Is it only for precipitations? Is "2 weeks" a norm? Is it something variable? Is it something the user should be able to set by herself/himself?  🤔 

@gerhard : I now know that I can count on you to make me discover periodically new indicators/indexes  🤩  🤣 I understand what is "frost score" (even though I had never heard of it) thanks to your explanation. Could you tell me, in which case is it used? Note it's really simple to implement (like Hellman's score).

@all : I'm trying to find examples of monthly/seasonal/yearly useful tables to reproduce or adapt. Do you have some to point me out?

If you like Weather Station, please consider to make a review to help make it known. That would be the best way to thank me...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/02/2019 2:39 pm
Gerhard Witteveen
(@gerhard)
Estimable Member 🇳🇱 🇧🇪 Editor
Posted by: Pierre Lannoy

Hello all.

@gerhard : I now know that I can count on you to make me discover periodically new indicators/indexes  🤩  🤣 I understand what is "frost score" (even though I had never heard of it) thanks to your explanation. Could you tell me, in which case is it used? Note it's really simple to implement (like Hellman's score).oint me out?

It is an adaptation of the Hellmann-score for milder climates. The Hellmann-Score needs a daily average below zero to count. In milder climates this does not happen so often, so the score stays really low. The Frost-Score also counts with only frost at night. So in effect both scores are used for comparing winters, but the Frost-Score gives more insight in milder climate, or milder winters.

So if, lets say, Paris and Brussels both had no daily average temps below zero (don't know if it is true for this year 🙄 ) then the Hellmann-Score for both cities is 0. By using the Frost-Score you can compare the Paris winter to Brussels winter, because both cities will have had frost at some point.

Hope this helps!

Gerhard

 

 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/02/2019 5:07 pm
Chris
(@zerog981)
Estimable Member 🇩🇪🇨🇭Editor
Hi Pierre 😉 
Posted by: Pierre Lannoy

@zerog981 : longest dry period, days since last precipitation, days of rain, etc. will be something feasible. But what is more unclear for me is how to manage "the maximum it was raining for a whole two weeks in a row in <period>"... Is it only for precipitations? Is "2 weeks" a norm? Is it something variable? Is it something the user should be able to set by herself/himself?  🤔 

Probably I should have been more clearly about that in the first place. For the dry/wet days I think you know what is meant. For the other thing, what I was proposing were just sentences of interpretation (so the two weeks were just something arbitrary). I will give you another example: Let's assume these are the successive days without rain for the corresponding years (values are just examples):
2015: 21 days
2016: 30 days
2017: 16 days
2018: 20 days

Now it's obviously that this is an indication of how extreme the weather was in a year (in terms of periods of dryness). Interpretation e.g.: At maximum it was not raining for 3 weeks in 2015. You can do the exact same thing now with successive days of precipitation, which is especially interesting in countries with monsoon and other similar weather phenomenons. As for the period of comparison you can choose relatively freely: years/seasons/decades/... However, I see a problem when the periods get too small (e.g. months) because it could of course happen that for instance there is no rain from the 15th of January up to the 15th of February. What do you take now as the longest dry period in February? The 15 days or (obviously more correctly) the whole 30 days? In conclusion this is something on a larger scale...

I hope this helps you, if something is still unclear, feel free to share it. I'm perfectly willing to put some more thought into this 😊 

@all : I'm trying to find examples of monthly/seasonal/yearly useful tables to reproduce or adapt. Do you have some to point me out?

Are you searching for something like the NOAA monthly summary table (screenshot)? I'm not sure if these are used any more, but you can find more information here.

Chris

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Chris

I like the cold weather. It means you get work done.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/02/2019 8:38 pm
Chris
(@zerog981)
Estimable Member 🇩🇪🇨🇭Editor

And something to add: I think it's not only possible to use successive days of precipitation, but I think we might come up with something else here. I would suggest for instance something like the successive days with maximum windspeeds greater then 50 kph (corresponding to F7 on the Beaufort scale). This can be of interest when comparing stations at different locations. But since creativity has no limits this is a topic on its own (using solar radiation, humidity etc.) 😉 

This post was modified 3 weeks ago 2 times by Chris

I like the cold weather. It means you get work done.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/02/2019 8:48 pm
Gerhard Witteveen
(@gerhard)
Estimable Member 🇳🇱 🇧🇪 Editor
Posted by: Pierre Lannoy

@all : I'm trying to find examples of monthly/seasonal/yearly useful tables to reproduce or adapt. Do you have some to point me out?

I found some nice visualisations for hourly values throughout the year. http://www.tedngai.net/?p=571  Nice visualisations, usefully for many measurements.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/02/2019 9:45 pm
Pierre Lannoy
(@pierre-lannoy)
Member Admin
Posted by: Gerhard Witteveen
 
I found some nice visualisations for hourly values throughout the year. http://www.tedngai.net/?p=571  Nice visualisations, usefully for many measurements.
 

Hello Gerhard.

Unfortunately, Weather Station doesn't store hourly values after compiling historical data. So these types of graphs are definitely impossible to render. That's the price to not explode the WordPress database...

If you like Weather Station, please consider to make a review to help make it known. That would be the best way to thank me...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/02/2019 11:55 am
Pierre Lannoy
(@pierre-lannoy)
Member Admin

Hello @zerog981 ...

If I understand well, regarding the number of possible variable, I have to design a full "query-builder" (with operators). That's a huge design chalenge. But a chalenge I'm taking up!

If you like Weather Station, please consider to make a review to help make it known. That would be the best way to thank me...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/02/2019 11:59 am
Pierre Lannoy
(@pierre-lannoy)
Member Admin

Regarding the tables, yes, I know the NOAA-style tables. But from my point of view, I found them not very user friendly and I doesn't understand very well their "added value". It's why I'm searching something more fresh and useful.

Are you using yourself such tables (I mean like this pointed out by Chris)?

If you like Weather Station, please consider to make a review to help make it known. That would be the best way to thank me...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/02/2019 12:03 pm
Pierre Lannoy
(@pierre-lannoy)
Member Admin
Posted by: Gerhard Witteveen
 
It is an adaptation of the Hellmann-score for milder climates.

Yes, it's like that I read it. And I find it very useful - now I'm knowing it 😉

Will definitely be in 3.8...

If you like Weather Station, please consider to make a review to help make it known. That would be the best way to thank me...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/02/2019 12:06 pm
Gerhard Witteveen
(@gerhard)
Estimable Member 🇳🇱 🇧🇪 Editor
Posted by: Pierre Lannoy

Hello @zerog981 ...

If I understand well, regarding the number of possible variable, I have to design a full "query-builder" (with operators). That's a huge design chalenge. But a chalenge I'm taking up!

Hey Pierre,

That would be sooo coooool 😎...

Gerhard 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/02/2019 12:24 pm
Chris
(@zerog981)
Estimable Member 🇩🇪🇨🇭Editor

A query builder is a nice solution to this and very advanced and elegant...really looking forward to it 😊 

I'm using the NOAA tables if someone asks me to provide a short overview of a given month. What I like about them is that they are simple to read and summarize the most important stuff. But you're right, for non-scientific people they are a bit "raw".

Regarding the tables, yes, I know the NOAA-style tables. But from my point of view, I found them not very user friendly and I doesn't understand very well their "added value".

If you mean the degree days with "added value" I probably can provide something. They seem to be similar to the indexes @gerhard suggested.

Chris

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Chris

I like the cold weather. It means you get work done.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/02/2019 4:47 pm

  
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